Tuesday, 20 January 2009
“Iravunk de facto”
RA Prime Minister Tigran Sargsyan answered the questions of “Iravunk de facto.”
- Mister Prime Minister as you put it: “We are a team, and I am acting on behalf of a team.” However, some experts find that the first factor to weaken you is the absence of a team. Oriental wisdom says the strong act on their own, while the weak "are always grouped" in order to succeed, especially in politics. And, nevertheless, how farther will you go alone? Don’t you think that the time has come to set up team?
- Frankly speaking, I do not feel myself as single. Also, I do not wish to set up a new team, I am not going to take steps to that effect. There is a team already established, and I see no point in creating a new one? You may know that the President of the Republic has a very important quality: he is the supporter of exclusively command approaches that is supposed to create an environment, an atmosphere of cooperation. I do not know what you can see from the outside, however we work in such an atmosphere and from this point of view, I feel myself as a member of a team. Also, some phenomena are perceived as normal occurrences by the society, while things stand the other way round. And vice versa, there are things which are normal but fail to be perceived as such. In many countries with coalition governments, non-partisan prime ministers are full-fledged members of a political team. I think myself as such.
- Let me remind you that some members of your team - coalition, Prosperous Armenia, in particular, and its head Gagik Tsarukyan, voted against the coalition-proposed tax package submitted to the National Assembly and acted with corresponding statements.
- In general, we are attentive to criticism. Any criticism, public statement becomes a subject of discussion because statements made by popular figures indicate that the society is concerned with a given problem and we are quite naturally obliged to address these questions.
- Mister Prime Minister, are you suffering from this quasi oppositional attitude of such a renowned personality as Gagik Tsarukyan to a number of "initiatives" of your government? Is there an "underlying reason"?
- There is not any underlying reason. We maintain normal relations with Gagik Tsarukyan and there are no interfering circumstances.
- There are a lot of rumors of Vice-premier Armen Gevorkyan playing a key role in your Cabinet.
- You know that Armen Gevorkyan has long experience and thorough knowledge of government activity. He is a well-organized person, full of respect in human relations. Therefore, I don’t share your statement about his “shadow activity” because both my human and official relations with the Vice-premier preclude me from making estimations like this. You know, frankly speaking, I do not at all understand where this negativism comes from.
- Mister Prime Minister. Let us be more frankly speaking. On New Year’s Eve, Prosperous Armenia was not present at the function held at Forum Restaurant (there came only 3 members of Parliament). Rumor has it that a number of MPs did not come round in an effort to please to Hovik Abrahamyan, Armen Gevorkyan, Hovik Abrahamyan, Gagik Tsarukyan form a single team in earnest. And to speak completely frankly, many experts and mass-media assert that there is a deep and latent intensity between the Speaker of the National Assembly and yourself and that this “team” is pursuing a powerful and invisible demarche against the incumbent Prime Minister, that is against you.
- It is really a surprise, great surprise to me. To meet their targets, experts and mass-media may apply different political technologies on the home political arena: this is part of political intrigue. However, this does not mean that they are trustworthy. Not at all... By the way, in addition to what was said, it should be mentioned that as Prime Minister, I feel much support on the part of the National Assembly Speaker. In general, so far I have enjoyed nothing less than support on his part.
- You are said to have nothing to do with the oligarchic-criminal system. You seem to be a public figure with outlook: this is why each time you start struggling with the shadow or launch a service investigation, the system rises against you by showing strong counteraction.
- First of all, I do not think that the result of our work is zero. The start-up of a service investigation is an important step already. It is a powerful strait jacket for any official who is exposed to criticism by the government and the society. Both the country and the system will benefit if each official realizes that any unacceptable to the society act will be targeted and banned. And thirdly, those cases revealed in numerous publications, all infringements, shortcomings have been addressed seriously, with those guilty having been penalized or dismissed from work. Remember those cases revealed by Edik Bagdasaryan: we conducted a service probe and it turned out that that the facts were true and those guilty were dismissed from work which is the extremely important.
- And, nonetheless, Mister Prime Minister, we badly need systemic changes today.
- I must agree with you in that changes are not so many and that much has to be done yet.
- What is behind the aforementioned reluctance to change? You may know that there are too many intellectuals awaiting changes: they pray Serzh Sargsyan was not mistaken and that you succeeded at last. Changes are long-awaited in the society.
- Yes, the society is awaiting changes, and there too many expectations today. We can feel these pulses. If we fail to live up to these expectations, the public will be disappointed. However, systemic changes will take time to complete. People will have to be more patient as we are facing numerous challenges on the way to changes. And finally, no one can achieve a breakthrough on his own.
- You said “team, collective actions” just a few minutes ago…
- I only meant that the society cannot stand aloof of these processes. They should not take up the stance of mere viewers of a theatrical staging, sitting in a hall and commenting on the Prime Minister’s moves. The society should be our partner by taking an active part in this process. If the society wants changes, they should be participants and assistants rather than observers.
- I wonder what you expect from the society in particular?
- Our programs are goal-oriented. Success will come if the new ideas and line of conduct proposed by the Prime Minister are seconded by ordinary citizen’s compliance with them. This is the most serious and difficult problem ahead of us. What matters is how to make ordinary citizens give up throwing stubs out of a car window, realize that the payment of taxes is their sacred duty. In a word, ordinary citizens should understand that tax-evasion is a crime against the nation. All this cannot be changed overnight and it would be is unrealistic to expect that the Prime Minister may change the game rules overnight. That is we should make it together. My task is to develop such programs as may imply enhanced public commitment and participation with precise mechanisms available for participation in these programs. We have made a first step: we shall not pass any decision or laws without public discussion, without consultations between all stakeholders so as they clearly see the rationale of our action.
- Notwithstanding, let us admit that the codes of those new approaches and new thinking outlined in your truly interesting articles entitled “The end of the State” and “How to carry out a revolution?” have not grown in number and that the society as a whole and the system of authority in particular, have not changed at all. Is the nation reluctant to push ahead because of its inability to accept progress and transformation?
- We really have serious problems as a society. To cope with these problems we need intellectuals rather than statesmen and political leaders. That is we need such personalities as may lead the nation with their system of values. Certainly, the best solution would be to bring together the political-administrative-intellectual elite. Unfortunately, this triumvirate is still absent in Armenia. It is not generated for the simple reason that there is lack of consensus within the society regarding the system of values. Moreover, there is a dispute - at times latent, sometimes obvious - as to the carriers of which system of values we are now and should be in future. Due to this, civil society faces serious obstacles in Armenia. Therefore, it is necessary to fill in this field by such people as seem not only to be able to formulate a system of values, but also (what is more important) to live according to these values, because the public reveals at once whether or not a person tells the truth. Truth is powerful when enforced by own conduct. We have to generate such leaders as may keep by a system of values both in word and in deed. Now we are in the stage of fermentation. We are going through a period of painful transformations. Painful because the world is changing quickly and makes us change ourselves, while we are not prepared to these transformations and ignore what the new world will be like following these changes.
And what is most important: the global economic and financial crisis is a manifestation of new world-building processes. The essence of the newly shaped world has escaped out attention. Today’s open discussions do not feature such parties as seem to be in a position to treat this issue. We suffer most of all from populism, trite thinking, mutual hatred, intolerance. I sincerely hope that these fermentations will lead to a consensus within the society. At this point, I can hardly tell you how soon this will happen. One thing is clear: spiritual values must be revitalized. We all need the company of such people as adhere to spiritual values.
Interview by Karmen Davtyan
